QRZ! Ham Radio 4/QRZ Ham Radio Callsign Database - Volume 4.iso/digests/infoham/940636.txt

Internet Message Format | 1994-11-13 | 27KB

Date: Mon,  6 Jun 94 20:00:11 PDT
From: Info-Hams Mailing List and Newsgroup <[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: Info-Hams Digest V94 #636
To: Info-Hams


Info-Hams Digest            Mon,  6 Jun 94       Volume 94 : Issue  636

Today's Topics:
                                "73's"
                                (none)
                       * SpaceNews 06-Jun-94 *
                   ARLB050 Atlantic Division awards
                            IDing (2 msgs)
                      Info-Hams Digest V94 #635
                      Legal Protections for Hams
                     need MFJ-941-D tuner manual
                Reality check (was Re: Ham Radio few p

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 94 17:09:28 GMT
From: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu![e-mail]
Subject: "73's"
To: [e-mail]

Since everyone seems to love arguing about what 73's means exactly and
also how everything should be written correctly, I just had to say this:

In article <2stqt9$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore -FT-~) writes:
|> the list, "73" simply meant "goodbye" in which "best of 73's" would mean
|> "out of all possible goodbye's, pick out the best one from me to you"...
            ^^^^^^^^^

goodbye's what?? And who or that is this good bye, anyway, that can own
something else?

:)
--
Will Turner,  N0RDV         ---------------------------------------------
[e-mail]        | "Are you going to have any professionalism, |
[e-mail]    | or am I going to have to beat it into you?" |
[e-mail]    ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 94 18:09:41 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (none)
To: [e-mail]

HELP

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 94 17:47:44 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: * SpaceNews 06-Jun-94 *
To: [e-mail]

SB NEWS @ AMSAT $SPC0606
* SpaceNews 06-Jun-94 *


BID: $SPC0606


                               =========
                               SpaceNews
                               =========


                           MONDAY JUNE 6, 1994


SpaceNews originates at KD2BD in Wall Township, New Jersey, USA.  It is
published every week and is made available for unlimited distribution.


* DOVE SPEAKS *
===============
It has been said that good things come to those who wait, and this week it
is a pleasure to report that DOVE-OSCAR-17 is uttering its first words!
Congratulations to Jim White, WD0E, and the other spacecraft controllers
for their fine effort in bringing this injured satellite back to life.


* MIR INFORMATION *
===================
Sven Grahn of Sollentuna, Sweden provided the following information
regarding the frequencies and emissions used by the Mir space station.

Sven reports the signals on 166 MHz are PCM FM signals and the modulation
index is so high that two peaks appear in the signal spectrum, one on
each side of the carrier.  The carrier is on 166.000 MHz creating a signal
peak at 166.150 MHz and another peak at 165.850 MHz.

The signals from Soyuz and Progress on 922.75 MHz contain a carrier plus
telemetry sidebands.  The modulation type is unknown.  Sometimes tones
are frequency modulated on the carrier.  These contain sixteen-bit words,
which probably constitute a command verification link.  There is a similar
link from Soyuz and Progress on 926.07 MHz operating simultaneously with
the 922.75 MHz link.

For Progress and Soyuz, the 922, 926 and 166 MHz signals are switched on
simultaneously by ground command.

[Info via Sven Grahn]


* UNAMSAT-1 NEWS *
==================
The launch campaign for the UNAMSAT-1 MicroSat is currently underway with
launch set for 15th June, but there is a possibility that it might be
delayed about one week.  The launch will be on a refurbished Soviet SS-18
ICBM designed to carry satellites.  The final Keplerian elements of the
intended orbit are not known, but the known parameters are as follows:

Orbital Inclination  = 73 degrees
Altitude             = 730 KM
Orbital Eccentricity = 0.00000000

The satellite will separate from the rocket with no spin.  All transmitters
will be silent at separation and for a period of at least 1 hour.  The VHF
receive antenna and the two halves of the canted dipole for 40.997 MHz will
be collapsed and then they will be deployed 3 minutes after separation.

The following information was first published in mid-1992, but may have
changed since:

As with the earlier MICROSATs, UNAMSAT-1 it has five modules, each about
20 cm on a side.  Four of the five modules are updated clones of existing
MicroSat hardware/software carrying Dual 70cm PSK transmitters; a computer
and power system; a 5-channel 2M FSK receiver and running similar software
to the other MICROSATs.  The main differences from the earlier MicroSat
configuration are that the computer will have 4 MB of RAM instead of 8 MB
and UNAMSAT-1 will be equipped with Gallium Arsenide solar panels.

The innovative new addition is a brand new on-board experiment in the 5th
"TSFR" ("This Space For Rent") module:

UNAMSAT-1's primary mission is to act as meteor sounder.  It will contain a
40.097 MHz transmitter with 60 watts output during pulses from which can be
varied from 1 to 10 msec in duration and with a pulse repetition rate of 1
to 10 seconds, as controlled by a computer subsystem.  The meteor echoes
will be detected on a receiver at the same frequency designed to detect the
returned echo and measure its doppler shift.  The use of the meteor sounder
is to obtain research data on the full-sky spatial and velocity distribution
of meteors, with the focus on a search for high-velocity meteors originating
outside our solar system.

The 40 MHz frequency for this transmitter is in accordance with the ITU
frequency allocations table for scientific research and both the 40 MHz and
amateur frequencies have been licensed by Mexican authorities.

The meteor receiver is an SSB "zero-IF" design and the return echoes are
digitized and stored in the normal computer's RAM.  After each pulse, the
spectrum of the received signal will be determined using the onboard
computer as a DSP Fourier Transform spectrum analyzer.  If a meteor echo is
detected, the echo will be saved for later transmission as a special
telemetry frame.

The 1-10 second repetition rate for the meteor transmitter will be adjusted
depending on the state of charge of the batteries and other spacecraft power
requirements, and also on the time domain requirements of the echoes.

When UNAMSAT-1 is not involved in meteor research, it can be turned into a
standard PACSAT message store-and-forward satellite and data will be sent
using standard amateur AX.25 packet but the actual frequencies haven't been
determined yet.

[Info via Richard, G3RWL @ GB7HSN.#32.GBR.EU]


* LUSAT-1 NEWS *
================
The following packet frame was received from LUSAT-1 on 29-May-94 by KD2BD
in New Jersey at 16:11 UTC:

LUSAT-1>AMARG [29-05-94  16:11:21] <UI>:

May 21.

OBC crashed on May 17 at +/- 2:45 utc, lat 45s, lon 43 w.
Only digipeater is available.

LU8DYF, LO-19 command station.

Raw telemetry should be directed to Noberto, LU8DYF either via packet radio
at [e-mail], via the Internet at [e-mail], or
via any active Pacsat by directing the message to LU8DYF.  Special awards
are available to those who submit telemetry reports.


* REPORT FROM HI8 *
===================
Bill Meara, N2CQR/HI8 in Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic sent a
FAX to let everyone know that there is a small but enthusiastic group of
satellite operators in his country.  Pericles, HI8P, a lifetime member of
AMSAT, and others have recently been bit by the RS satellite bug.  They
also listen for DOVE, connect to Mir, and work the SAREX experiments
when flown on the US Space Shuttles.

Bill reports that RS-10 and RS-12 are performing well, and that QSLs for
ROBOT contacts are available through DF4XW.  Bill uses an old Hallicrafters
HT-37 transmitter and Drake 2-B receiver with dipole antennas to work
RS-12 Mode K.  His station is just another example of a low-cost,
low-frills station that can be used to make satellite contacts.


* FO-20 NEWS *
==============
On 19-May-94, the FO-20 command station announced that a problem exists
in FO-20's onboard computer system.  The satellite's transponder will
remain in the analog mode (JA) until further notice.

[Info via Kazu Sakamoto, JJ1WTK]


* THANKS! *
===========
Thanks to all those who sent messages of appreciation to SpaceNews,
especially:

        N2CQR/HI8    N2OFM     G3BGM    KE4HSB    VK4BY    N0LBN


* FEEDBACK/INPUT WELCOMED *
===========================
Mail to SpaceNews should be directed to the editor (John, KD2BD) via any
of the following paths:

FAX      : [phone]
PACKET   : KD2BD @ N2KZH.NJ.USA.NA
INTERNET : [e-mail] -or- [e-mail]

MAIL     : John A. Magliacane, KD2BD
           Department of Engineering and Technology
           Advanced Technology Center
           Brookdale Community College
           Lincroft, New Jersey  07738
           U.S.A.


       <<=- SpaceNews: The first amateur newsletter read in space! -=>>

/EX

--
John A. Magliacane, KD2BD   * /\/\ * Voice   : 1-908-224-2948
Advanced Technology Center  |/\/\/\| Packet  : KD2BD @ N2KZH.NJ.USA.NA
Brookdale Community College |\/\/\/| Internet: [e-mail]
Lincroft, NJ  07738         * \/\/ * Morse   : -.-  -..  ..---  -...  -..

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Jun 1994 17:06:06 EDT
From: psinntp!arrl.org![e-mail]
Subject: ARLB050 Atlantic Division awards
To: [e-mail]

SB QST @ ARL $ARLB050
ARLB050 Atlantic Division awards

ZCZC AG15
QST de W1AW
ARRL Bulletin 50  ARLB050

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 1994 09:42:25 -0400
From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hpuerci.atl.hp.com!hpuerca![e-mail]
Subject: IDing
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (RAY WADE) writes:

>The foundation of the misuse of C.W. prosigns (NOT abbreviations) has
>only occured in the past 10 years or so when former CB operator's
>got their Amateur tickets and brought their misused and butchered CB
>lingo into the hobby. This, BTW, is not a condemnation of the many

Let me get this straight: amateur prosigns are misused because former
CB ops came into the hobby and misused/butchered CB lingo. Right.

>they tend to revert to their old lingo. Just listen to any
>repeater when two (or more) brand new codeless techs talk to each other.

And codeless tech = former CBer! Wow.

>CQ is NOT a CW abbreviation. Consult any radio amateurs handbook.
>"Q" signals (CQ is not a Q signal) are "prosigns" used when operating

CQ is NOT an abbreviation or Q signal. Ok.

>C.W. to shorten a transmission ON CW! Few, if any, Q signals shorten

Shorten a cw transmission? I see. So that explains it! We understand
now why a bonafide cw op must send:

CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ de AA1AAA de AA1AAA AA1AAA CQ CQ CQ
and:
QTH? QTH? QTH HERE IS CENTRAL OKKKEE EEEE OKEEFF EEEE OK BT FL FL
FLORIDA COPY? CP CP?

To be fair, things DO get short when you try to carry on a conversation:
You say: NICE CONDITIONS HERE TODAY AND I REALLY ENJOY IT WHEN THE WEATHER
COOPERATES SO NEATLY. HOW ARE THINGS AT YOUR END?
He says: FB FB GUD CP GT QSY SK

I'm impressed.

Ray, et al., lighten UP! If such things as hearing "73" or "73s"
on a repeater bother you so much, relax, take a deep breath, and
set the example you would like to hear (and _never_ berate! new
amateurs are nervous enough without getting verbal abuse on the
air!). If someone directs "what's your QTH" your direction, just
smile to yourself (feel superior if you must), and gently reply:
"I'm driving down route 75 right now just enjoying the ride. Where
are you at and are you doing anything special?"

There, don't you feel better already? :-)

Cheers, Best Regards, Chow, and so on.
Ed Humphries - N5RCK (classic)
Hewlett Packard NARC Atlanta GA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 14:31:23 GMT
From: newsgate.melpar.esys.com!melpar![e-mail]
Subject: IDing
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Ed Humphries) writes:

>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (RAY WADE) writes:

>>The foundation of the misuse of C.W. prosigns (NOT abbreviations) has
>>only occured in the past 10 years or so when former CB operator's

     I'm not sure I follow all the complaints related to this thread.
Having been licensed since 1957, and having operated extensively on
75 meter phone during the 1958-64 time period, I can state with absolute
certainty that many, many CW abbreviations were in use on 'phone and
even on 'phone traffic nets.  Examples:

    "QTH here is........"

    "Handle here is....."

    "QSL number 47, QRV."  (station verifying receipt of one piece of
     traffic and indicating readiness for the next piece.)

    "W4XYZ, QRU"  (typical check-in to a voice net by a station with no traffic)

    "Let's QSY to....."

    "Roger, Old Man, well, the XYL just rang the dinner bell, so we'd
     better QRT here and put on the feed bag.  We'll say 73 from here
     and hope tomorrow there won't be so much QRM, although they're
     predicting thunderstorms so we'll probably have to put up with
     some Q-R-nancy, Hi Hi.  Best of DX and catch you later, and thanks
     for the Que-so."

     I'm not saying that the above is right, proper, acceptable, or even
couth.  But I'm at a loss to understand the desire on the part of so
many (apparently) vocal operators to suddenly force the use of 'correct
English" on the air as opposed to slang.  Personally, I've always liked
"ham slang" on voice, but if someone chooses not to use it that's OK,
too.

     I'd rather see "CB slang" used on CB only, and ex-CBers revert to
"ham slang" on the ham bands, but as long as they know what they're
talking about and they're not using "profane, indecent or suggestive"
verbage, does it really matter?


(|_|)  * Paul H. Bock, Jr. K4MSG  * Internet: [e-mail]
 | |)  * Senior Systems Engineer  * Telephone: [phone] x2062

   "You can have my bug when you can pry my cold, dead fingers from
    around it....." - anonymous radiotelegraph operator

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 94 19:36:48 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Info-Hams Digest V94 #635
To: [e-mail]

-------------------------------
Subject: "73's"

[e-mail] wrote:

 >WELL GOT THE CALL FROM MY WIFE AS SHE NEEDS HELP WILL TALK TO YOU
 >LATER.... TAKE CARE   73'S YOU DISCONNECT...
 >[ Yeah, sure!  When was the last time he helped the YF?  Do you really
 >believe he'd quit playing radios just to help the YF?]

Joe,
If "OF" stands for Old Fart, does "YF" stand for Young Fart?!?


[e-mail]

------------------------------
Subject : Re: 440 in So. Cal.

 >Applicant A should receive a frequency pair which minimizes interference.
 >If no frequency pair can be found that can do that, s/he should be
 >denied a pair.
 >MD                                                    ^
                                                        |
Come now, lets speak consistent PC-"ness"  :-)          |
                                                      s/h/it
[e-mail]
------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 94 20:27:30 GMT
From: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!unixhub!SHADOWFX.SLAC.Stanford.EDU![e-mail]
Subject: Legal Protections for Hams
To: [e-mail]

In article <2sgvqj$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jason Hanson) writes:
>Xref: unixhub rec.radio.amateur.policy:10668 rec.radio.amateur.misc:60301
>Path: unixhub!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!yar.cs.wisc.edu!jhanson
>From: [e-mail] (Jason Hanson)
>Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.ham-radio
>Subject: Legal Protections for Hams
>Date: 1 Jun 1994 03:37:55 GMT
>Organization: University of Wisconsin
>Lines: 17
>Message-ID: <2sgvqj$[e-mail]>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: yar.cs.wisc.edu


>I am a candidate for the Wisconsin legislature this fall and (as an Extra who
>cares about ham radio concerns) would like to prepare a sheet for my district's
>ham population.   What I am interested in is ideas for state laws that hams
>would appreciate...

>Ideas I have so far include:

>1) Opposition to scanner/radio bans, etc.
>2) Adoption of PRB-1 (with possible revisions) into statutory form (I know
>about federal preemption, but this would make cases easier for hams...)
>3) Developing stronger partnerships between state and ARES/RACES, etc.

>Any input (or money <grin>) you could provide would be appreciated!
>--
>Jason J. Hanson        |    22 Langdon Street #220    |  [phone]
>Univ. of Wisconsin     |    Madison, WI 53703-1344    |  Ham: N9LEA (Extra)
>--  [e-mail]      =*++*=      n9lea@wd9esu.#scwi.wi.usa.noam  --
There was a case in California where a ham with CAP/MARS capability on
his HT called - after attempting to get help on ham band - for aid on a police
frequency.  His companion was badly injured due to a fall, and he was in a
remote area.  The ham had his radio confiscated by the police in conjunction
with the FCC.    I found the idea that the ham was being punished for
attempting to save a life totally uncalled for, and legislation recognizing
special circumstances where a radio operator could use "unauthorized" bands
without worrying about being subjected to harrasment later, would be very
helpful.

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 94 19:51:52 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: need MFJ-941-D tuner manual
To: [e-mail]

Text item: Text_1

>I got a used MFJ-941D versa tuner II and do not have the manual ...
>73s de jerry N3RKD

Hi Jerry, send me your snail-mail address and I'll mail you a copy.

73, KG7BK, [e-mail]  (I do not speak for Intel)

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 1994 22:05:12 GMT
From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!koriel!newsworthy.West.Sun.COM!abyss.West.Sun.COM!spot![e-mail]
Subject: Reality check (was Re: Ham Radio few p
To: [e-mail]

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Jeffrey Herman) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Buffington) writes:
>>Jeffrey Herman ([e-mail]) wrote:
>>
>>: I knew the Defender of Radio Lawbreakers would eventually surface. You
>>: came to Bly's defense in December when he bragged about operating
>>: without a license, and now in June Bly resurfaces and so do you.
>>
>>Oh, come on, this is silly and asinine.  Linking Dana to Bly when what he
>>is really doing is offering a well-reasoned response on the subject of
>>this thread.
>
>You're new on here so let me fill you in:
>
>1. One fellow was bragging about how he was going to place a 5 kW broadcast
>band transmitter on the ham bands and about how he didn't care about the
>FCC rules, etc. - I scolded him - Dana came to his defense.

The fellow that suggested he was going to move a 5KW transmitter over to
the amateur bands did not say he was going to operate the transmitter at
the 5KW level.  Nonetheless, Jeff attacked him and I said "but he didn't
say he was going to break the law" and then Jeff decided I was a lawbreaker.
As I recall, after Jeff's attack, the amateur with the 5KW transmitter
said he intends to operate it legally.

>2. Bly bragged about how easy it is to operate in SoCal without a license
>and that he'd done it for years - I scolded him - Dana came to his defense.

Yeah, I said something like "just cause Bly said he did it, doesn't mean he
did, we just don't know on the Internet".  I recall it was part of a train of
thought on my part suggesting that Jeff ought to ignore Bly's posts, since
they are similar to a radio jammer.  They tend to go away if you ignore them.

>3. Someone was inviting pirates to use 6 Mc air-to-ground frequencies - I
>argued with him about the danger of that - Dana came to his defense.

No, someone, in Europe, on rec.radio.cb, said they'd monitored CB pirates
on 6MHz.  Jeff wrote a note slamming the original poster, who, for all we
know, is an SWL, and Jeff threatened to call the FCC and report the original
poster.  My response was an attempt to point out that not all radio amateurs
are as uptight as this.

>4. Bly now brags about jamming closed 440 Mc repeaters - I scold him -
>Dana shows up.

Yeah, I show up to defend the VHF/UHF scene in Southern California, not
Roger Bly.  Did I ever defend Bly?  Not on your life.  Did I suggest that
Bly's postings may not be indicative of reality in Southern Cal?  Sure did!

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

I do *not* condone breaking the law.
I do *not* condone unwarranted personal attacks on the Usenet.
I do *not* have a history of illegal radio operation.

Probably I should treat the attacks from Jeff as I would any other malicious
jamming and ignore them.  ;-)

---
 * Dana H. Myers KK6JQ, DoD#: j    | Views expressed here are    *
 * [phone]         | mine and do not necessarily    *
 * [e-mail]    | reflect those of my employer    *
 * This Extra supports the abolition of the 13 and 20 WPM tests *

------------------------------

Date: 6 Jun 94 20:53:53 GMT
From: dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!kabuki.EECS.Berkeley.EDU![e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

References <[e-mail]>, <2stc0n$[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>▓
Subject : Re: 440 in So. Cal.

OK, I've seen the SAME bits of information go around and around
and around.......  My summary:

1)  All repeaters are CLOSED.  The FCC has said so, and the
new Form 610 says so also.  YOU MUST PREVENT UNAUTHORIZED
PERSONS FROM ACCESS.  So, putting up a repeater and not controlling
what goes on is or will soon be possibly in violation.

2)  What is important is the definition of OPEN vs. CLOSED.
"OPEN" just means that the trustee has in effect given prima
facie carte blanche permission for any operator to use the
equipment.  CLOSED means that the trustee would like to exercise
some control over who uses the equipment.  Given (1) above,
it would seem that "OPEN" repeaters are on the way out.

3)  Licensed amateurs may operate their equipment in
on any frequency, subject to the restrictions of Part 97,
specifically 97.301, 97.305 and related sections.  This means
that you may use the input and output of the repeater for
your own purpose PROVIDED you don't cause harmful interference
with the repeater.

4)  The trustee has the right to limit use of the repeater as
he/she deems necessary.  "....Limiting the use of a repeater
to only certain user stations is permissible." (97.205e)
This extends to different classes of access -- allowing
general phone use, but restricting autopatch to a select
few, etc.

5)  You may put up a repeater in any part of the amateur
spectrum within the restrictions of 97.205.  However, if you
cause interference to another repeater, and you are not
coordinated, the regulations place PRIMARY responsibility
on the uncoordinated repeater.

6)  The frequency COORDINATOR cannot make any judgements
as to whether one repeater is "better" than another.
He/she can only help determine whether a proposed installation will
cause harmful interference.  Remember, it is the trustee's
responsibility to minimize interference.  The ID of
the repeater and responsibility of Part 97 belongs with
the trustee -- you don't hear the call of the coordinator going
over the repeater, do you?

7)  Spectrum management is a different issue from coordination.
Coordinators work within the guidelines of the spectrum management
group.  97.101b states that amateurs are responsible for
working with each other to maximize the effective use of
amateur frequencies.  Thus, amateurs as a whole have
the power to determine frequency use (band plan) within
the specific rules in Part 97.  This means that if amateurs
in a given area as whole wish to redefine use of spectrum,
it appears that the rules allow it, provided they agree.

8)  There is plenty of spectrum in 1280 MHZ band, even
in SoCal.  Population of the upper bands is desirable so
that we as amateurs don't lose more spectrum.  Watch what
is going on in 2400.

9)  "Paper" repeaters are a problem with the coordinating body.
A good coordinating body should have a mechanism to determine
inactive repeaters and a formal procedure to de-coordinate them.
If the problem is with "paper" repeaters, then the coordinating
body needs to do something about it.  This is DIFFERENT than
a closed repeater.


My two cents....

                    -Ken

------------------------------

Date: (null)
From: (null)


------------------------------

End of Info-Hams Digest V94 #636
******************************